[UNRESOLVED] Laser access behaving weirdly

Trying to use the laser and getting a variety of errors - job sometimes starts, sometimes doesn’t, stops a few times 10 seconds into job, Can hear relays clicking on and off occasionally, green and red light often when fob is in along with sometimes flashing yellow.

Me and @jonty have tried it with each of our fobs, same result… any ideas @lasertechs @systems

We have tried turning laser on and off but not sure where access for tool control is so can’t power cycle it… thoughts?

Thanks!

A bunch of possibilities…

Of course tool control was worked on.

The 24V supply was also opened up and connected to. This comes off woodshop supply: box on wall with all the consumer units: box with clear lid with PCB in it iirc, has the grey CAT type cable coming from it going to metal lathe control…more than that is hard to describe. However there’s mains in there so absolutely don’t open it. I’m only suggesting you might be able to trace where to power cycle it from.

It sounds like tool control is being intermittent with your tag, have you tried another person’s tag?

We have it a go this morning and once the tag was correctly inserted, no issues reported

I’d suggest OP replaces their tag via the kiosk and disposed of the old one.

And @Jonty_Bottomley? It seems odd both wouldn’t work. And presumably work on other readers?

Both Jonty and I’s tags didn’t work - and it kept throwing up a variety of errors - from door open to saying unexpected shutdown etc.

But this morning my fob worked fine on the laser again…

Both those errors could be caused by the tool control deciding to turn off the machine. I’ve noticed that if you open the lid during a job, sometimes it sends a message to the host PC to tell it the door has opened before saying it has shut down, other times the other way around.

I wonder if the controller needs to register a tag removal only if it seems the tag is not there 3 times in a row, rather than just checking once every 10 seconds.

That’s not how Jonathan’s system works. The reader reports a tag read from one of two readers every 10 seconds.

The server validates the access and issues a 30 second lease for the tool operation. This process repeats often enough to allow misreads.

When I first did the design before Jonathan was a member I worked on a similar project using QR codes and had issues with reliability in similarly stable environments like this where the tag was not moving br would drop out.

The solution I came up with for tool control v1 was to use a photo diode to detect if the card was still present. This would be susceptible to abuse as theoretically you could put the tag in with a piece of black paper and remove the tag. But the idea is to detect the physical presence of the tag after the first read and then check less often.

I experienced these same issues with the Tool control on the laser cutter.

Ultimately i found that the fact my fob was attached to my keys, and the keys were dangling outside the tool control, and their swinging about a small degree was enough to change the position/seating of the fob in relation to the tool control reader.

I ran about 10 tests with my keys still attached to my fob, with each test throwing the job termination error.

After removing my keys and seating the fob only (no keychain attached), I was able to run 10 tests with no errors, and eventually run an actual job to completion.

My conclusion was that the reader is very sensitive to position changes, even ones that seem inconsequential to us humans, so the fob must remain static in a position that it likes to avoid it missing a read check.

Hope this helps,

–James.

Some of the tags are super sensitive. It’s worth replacing the tag.

We will be designing a new holder for the tags that should be more robust.

In the new design, a groove to allow large rings to nestle nicely may be an idea. My tag works, but it was fiddly as the fob is attached to my keys with one of those large metal rings that generally hold your house keys. Sorry, can’t describe that any better and don’t have my tag with me to photograph.

Other than that, can’t think of anything to improve the design. It’s pretty neat as it is.

No disrespecting all the hard work of all the guys working on it - that is greatly appreciated and i love the idea - but if its still got these teething issues should it really be on the laser…

Like if a chop saw loses power, no problem, you just stop the cut. But if a laser job terminated half way through the job it’s a) probably ruined - especially if engraving b) can be expensive.

This happened to me and looks like its happened to others and i would be wary to cut/engrave anything high value in it until this is resolved.

Appreciate all your efforts. Thanks again

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What makes it especially awkward is that it isn’t consistent - had been using tool control after (and since) without any issues.

Most people don’t appear to be having these issues, I was one of those that did, I replaced the key fob which resolved the issue.

As for Dales specific issue I agree, the new design resolves this, Joe had the same issue as you and was able to resolve it by adding putting the extra metal loop back on. When we issue the tags they come with a hoop that you can use to add it to your existing key chain in such a way that it is free to move.

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Was it a faulty batch of tags? Or is there still a chance i could get another faulty one out of the bowl?

As at least 5 members have had tag issues with the laser which i think points to an issue.

Thanks

There are some tag issues and some about improving the design and people learning how the system works.

I will agree with @Calum_Nicoll on this. It’s not a matter of disrespect, but even after testing a whole bunch I was biting my nails when I ran the laser cutter under power for a proper cut.

In my case I use the laser cutter to engrave a finished bowl, I stand to have to do a LOT of corrective work (or scrap a project in a worst case scenario) if the job stops have way through an engrave, since there is no way to reposition and continue a job perfectly.

I have actually been avoiding putting my mark on my last bowl. With the tool control being inconsistent and the internet being intermittent that day, there was no way I was going to risk ruining a really good finished piece.

I second that until we have the tool control system rock-solid, that maybe there is better tool to be using to work out all these issues. One that has a reduced risk of ruining projects and wasting materials in failure states.

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Exactly. I’d also say for tools where a reset is very difficult (e.g anything cnc inc laser) it should only check at the start of a job to avoid the risk of an internet dropout resetting it…

We have a great laser that is reliable, let’s not change that.

Alternatives - just have tool control play a loud noise if a fob is removed/ not present for cnc tools.

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Please forward your comments to @systems.

As for the issues themselves. These are down the the design of the tag holder needing improvement, the only way for us to learn these lessons is with real use.

It is not practical to change the hardware to play sounds or do other such things but I have an idea.

Could members help take the load of complaints off of us by helping to make the tag holder better. If someone will volunteer to draw and laser cut the new design that would be amazing.