Service horses are remarkable animals and in many aspects they’re preferable to dogs. To start with, they tend to live 3 to 4x longer than dogs, and their field of vision is more than double.
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I had a horse when I was little, as did my mum amazing animals <3 they just cost as much as a mortgage nowadays between stabling, feeding and everything else that goes around them - best I could do for Sabrina was a dog and I would have preferred a cat but dog it had to be for her needs >.<
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Personally if dogs are not allowed, kids should not either. They can be loud and unpredictable, but understand that some parents might not like this due to babysitting costs same way dog sitting is available only to some with the funds.
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I can take antihistamines for the horses so I am the other way!
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Let’s keep horses and humans to another thread and separate discussion as the arguments for and against are quite disparate.
im all for dogs at the space. the spaces that I’ve hung out at over the years have been welcoming of them and its been far less dangerous than the picture painted above. and i too agree kids would be simialrly risky and/or irritating. some are wonderul some are not. case by case basis and common sense would probably be best course of action.
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Both groups as in the pro and against pooches cant physically be at the space 24/7 surely there is an opportunity for those who want and don’t want dogs to come on different days/times? This way everyone gets to share the space and every member retains equal rights to access, including those that “have” to bring their dogs irrespective of their reasoning and for those to whom a dog is not in their mind welcome. Leave it then to the techs in each of their space to make a rational judgement call based on facts and add it to the H&S on how safe/unsafe their area is to be inclusive or exclusive.
This way we can all be happy and still use the space.
If we are taking it to a vote, I dont think a binary choice is fully suitable. @petra to me suggests a more balanced and nuanced approach where you should speak to the people in the space and ask what they are comfortable with at the time. Something like:
It is the responsibility of the owner to make it clear that anyone can remove their consent/approval at any time without fear of reprisal. Any “my precious pooch can do no wrong” attitudes must be checked at the door! 
And equally it is the responsibility of the other people to say when they are comfortable and when they are not such that people can bring their dogs without fear of unknowingly upsetting someone.
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@nhjansen, is there any specific reason you’re choosing to raise this as an issue now?
I’m all for solving our problems. I’m not for saying that something could be a problem and especially not for jumping to “rules are needed to solve this potential problem”. I don’t think we should be deciding to implement rules based on potential problems. We’ve said this many times recently, on topics from cleaning to shutter access etiquette, and it shouldn’t be different now.
FWIW, I think it’s on a dog owner to check that they can bring their dog into the space before they enter. But that’s a code of conduct thing, not a rule thing.
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There’s a members meeting next week. Seems like a good time to mention it.
I suggest dogs on lead. Which removes the whole jumping thing.
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Rather than thinking about this topic based on emotional attachments or experiences of one’s own dog, this should be looked at from a risk management perspective.
Suppose someone brings an adorable Jack Russell puppy to the space - who would say no to that. Then a child who is also in the space tugs on its ears (children are unpredictable) and the puppy bites off the child’s fingers. It could happen. It’s a foreseeable risk that’s been allowed and the space would be legally liable for that personal injury. We do not have the competence to make an assessment of which dogs are safe and which are not. Taking the owner’s assurances is not a sound risk management approach. Sure, we could ban children from the space for the sake of dog owners, but that dog could still bite off an adult’s finger. What if there is more than one dog in the space and they start fighting- that can happen. Someone tries to separate them and gets bitten, losing their thumb. A dog, even a small dog, can cause a serious injury. There is a foreseeable risk if we allow just any dog in the space.
With a registered guide dog, there is a competent independent assurance of the dog’s behaviour. Those dogs are trained to have their ears tugged, tails trodden on etc. With an assistance dog in training, there is also a possibility of also having a competent independent assessment from the trainer whether that dog can be considered safe to have in a working area such as we have.
There is a legal obligation to ensure safety for those in the space. It’s not simply a matter of voting on what members want. We need to manage things properly, complying with those obligations. Without a suitable competent independent assurance that the dog would be safe to have in the space, we wouldn’t be meeting that obligation.
A compromise might be to allow a dog in the clean room only if on a lead and with a muzzle, with the owner looking after it at all times, with the dog to be kept at least 2m from the kitchen area, electronics bench and any potentially dangerous equipment - with the doggie area marked out on the floor. I can’t really see that being a good solution though. It also doesn’t address issue if someone has an allergy unless the dog is in a space suit also.
If someone needs to bring their dog because there isn’t anyone else to look after them, then perhaps figure out having a doggie area outside or organising taking turns looking after the dogs - take them to the park over the road. It would seem a much better way.
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Was a decision made on this point?
There was a small dog off its lead in Arch 1 yesterday, and I very nearly tripped over it while I was working in the Textiles area.
The area’s full of sharp and heavy objects, and there’s a high risk of injury if someone’s distracted while operating a sewing machine.
My 2-cents
If you’re bringing a dog to the space, it should be announced in advance (Discourse post) and anyone who’s going to be in the space at that time can object (they don’t need to give a reason) and if there’s any objections - no doggo
If a dog is in the space, it mustn’t be allowed to free-roam and must always be accompanied by a responsible human
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Right now dogs are allowed in the Space, but sounds like we could use some guidelines…
Here is a proposed policy for keeping the Space accessible to both dog owners and other members, basically be courteous and book the dog in so others know when you will be bringing a dog. I have not seen that many dogs in the Space so hopefully some common sense and a straightforward policy will help mitigate any potential issues.
Comments are welcome, thanks.
@directors please review as well.
Dog Policy for South London Makerspace
Well-mannered dogs are welcome at South London Makerspace, provided their owners ensure a respectful and comfortable environment for all members. Dog owners must ensure their pets are under control at all times, kept on a lead where appropriate, and never left unattended. Owners are fully responsible for their dogs, including cleaning up after them, managing any disruptions such as barking, and being mindful of members who may be allergic or uncomfortable around dogs. Please be courteous and considerate, ensuring that your dog does not interfere with the safety or enjoyment of other members.
To maintain a safe and organised environment, all dog visits must be booked in advance through the Makerspace’s Space booking system. By booking in advance, we can ensure a comfortable and safe atmosphere for all members and their pets. If a dog causes repeated issues or complaints, the Directors reserves the right to reconsider that dog’s access. By bringing a dog into the space, owners agree to adhere to these guidelines, fostering a respectful and productive environment for everyone.
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Might be worth adding something about keeping them contained to a room/area and not being allowed to free-roam.
Also maybe mention guide/assistance dogs so there’s no misunderstanding of the policy at a later date if such conversations happen. (I think they should follow the same rules as other dogs - but having them named specifically would be useful)
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I think ‘kept on a lead where appropriate’ is good no? I don’t think they need to be on a lead all the time, and ‘never left unattended’ covers them going off by themselves. I can’t see limiting the dog owning member to one room or something.
If the policy is the same for guide/assistance dogs, then what do we want to add regarding them?
Maybe something like
Well-mannered dogs, Guide Dogs and Assistance Dogs are welcome at South London Makerspace,…
An even longer and more detailed version merged with the policy we have at my office:
Dog Policy for South London Makerspace
At South London Makerspace, we believe dogs can help create a fun, happy environment, encourage social interactions, and even get us up for regular exercise breaks. Allowing dogs in our space is a privilege, not a right, and all dog owners must respect the following guidelines to maintain a safe, productive, and welcoming atmosphere for everyone.
Dog Requirements To participate, your dog must be:
- Current on vaccinations.
- Parasite-free (fleas, ticks, etc.).
- Potty-trained and well-groomed.
- Well-behaved and socialized, with no history of biting or aggressive behavior.
Owner Responsibilities By bringing your dog to South London Makerspace, you agree to:
- Be fully responsible for your dog’s behavior, well-being, hygiene, and happiness while on the premises.
- Be legally and financially liable for any damage or incidents caused by your dog.
- Keep your dog controlled, leashed where appropriate, and with you at all times.
- Provide your own dog food, water bowls, and cleaning supplies, including poop bags.
- Clean up after your dog immediately and inform the Directors if extra cleaning is required.
- Provide your dog with adequate bathroom breaks, access to water, and exercise throughout the day.
Booking System and Restrictions To manage the number of dogs in the space and ensure a comfortable environment for all, dog visits must be booked in advance through the Makerspace’s Space booking system.
Dog-Free Areas For hygiene and safety reasons, dogs are not allowed in the following areas:
- Kitchen and food preparation areas.
- Restrooms
Safety Around Tools For the safety of all members and dogs, dogs must be kept away from areas where power tools, heavy machinery, or other potentially hazardous equipment are in use. Owners should always be aware of their surroundings to avoid accidents.
Common Courtesy Not every member enjoys or is comfortable with dogs. If you bring your dog to South London Makerspace, be respectful of other members and their pets to ensure everyone can enjoy making things and have a positive experience.
If a dog causes repeated issues or complaints, the Directors reserve the right to reconsider that dog’s access. By bringing a dog into the space, owners agree to adhere to these guidelines, fostering a respectful and productive environment for everyone.
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It may be useful to clarify “areas with heavy machinery”. IMO this is the entirety of arch two, and I would be strongly in favour of restricting dogs (beyond guide dogs of course) from there entirely.
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