Dogs in space

#1

I’d like to nail down agreed protocols for pets in the space. I see a couple past “okay, but only in the clean room” posts, however I think even this warrants review. Some opinions:

We frequently have people working on electronics projects where, if you get startled or bumped by a well-intentioned dog, you could easily touch something very hot, very sharp, or very electrically live.

Especially, they should never be off lead within the space nor outside the direct supervision of the owner at any time. Animals are (effectively) unpredictable and there is no way to determine who in the space may unintentionally alarm or be alarmed by a pet – even if you feel your pet is calm and well-trained.

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#2

That sounds reasonable. Some pets ARE trained and won’t bump, BUT if this is your experience I believe we should be mindful.

#3

I know this is a serious topic, and o e I do t have a strong option in. I gave a tour last Sunday to someone with a dog, I hadn’t considered it a problem, I got way more sketchy vibes from the accompanying humans. Apologies if it was.

But did anyone else see the title and expect some Lakia tribute project and are now disappointed?

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#4

+1 - exactly that!

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#5

I agree and would also like to add- with so many members, we also need to bear in mind people with allergies and those who are simply uncomfortable around dogs. I say this as someone who is a big fan of dogs now but had a terrible fear of them as a child! I personally wouldn’t want to say that they aren’t welcome in the clean room, for example, but perhaps - and sorry if this is a weird idea - people could add to the calendar booking if they’re bringing a dog by? :dog:

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#6

I’m 1,000% more likely to find an excuse to be at the space if i know there’s going to be a dog :smiley:

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#7

Another good reason to add doggy visitors to bookings!

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#8

Anytime I bring my dog I ask everyone in the room if they are okay with him being there off the lead. If Neil says he is not, I won’t get mad and welcome the open honesty.

The etiquette should be - ask and expect a yes or no answer.

It should also apply to loud kids imho.

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#9

I did bring up this subject well aware that dog people love dogs :slight_smile: and that dog owners tend to believe their dogs are well trained. And that part of being in a public space is being around potential stressors and sometimes you just have to get over it. I just think dogs specifically are a wild card from a risk perspective and the makerspace isn’t a suitable environment. It doesn’t take much for a dog to slip through an open door and end up outside the clean room unattended. A behaviourally safe dog isn’t necessarily a situationally safe dog.

I did mostly just want to prod the subject so that we can make a risk-based decision that is right-size and appropriate for the space, not one that relies on “people generally like dogs”.

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#11

I don’t mind dogs in the clean/messy/3d n’ textiles room, but do think they can be a potential hazard in the metal or wood rooms, especially if people are actively working.

#12

This is a really thorny issue:

  • On the one hand, people really love their dogs, and there will no doubt be people who would be enabled into the space by having their dogs with them, either because the dog needs them, vica versa, or both.

  • On the other hand, there are many health reasons why people can’t be around dogs that prevent them from being in the space with a dog, including allergies and various mental health-related reasons, including OCD, anxiety, fear of dogs, neurodiversity, etc.

  • In the middle sits another issue: dogs are everything to their owners, and people get pretty tetchy about any accusations their dog is poorly behaved or disruptive, especially if you’ve travelled somewhere and now effectively have to pack up and go home.

I completely agree we need a policy about this, which probably needs to be completely unambiguously yes or no, with the exception of guide dogs (and probably not self-appointed service animals). There are no staff on-site to mediate the intricacies of whether a dog is too big or how many barks constitute a doggy ban.

Since the pandemic, the number of dogs seems to have risen, and the expectation of owners to be able to enter spaces they’d not normally be welcome, like cafés, shops, and, I guess, Makerspaces, has increased. But personally, I think it’s safer to say no because, for all the promises you can make in advance, ultimately, saying “I don’t like dogs” in the moment won’t be popular and will be extremely socially difficult for someone actually to do, so they’re, in effect, silenced by the situation.

A compromise could be to have 1 week per month where dogs are allowed, it doesn’t solve the allergies issue but could help with the rest of the issues.

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#13

Allowing dogs into the space is a potential hazard anywhere.

It’s not a case of liking or not liking dogs.

A brief look at suggested workplace policies for being ‘dog friendly’ makes it clear that a suitable policy permitting dogs in the space wouldn’t be feasible. On top of that there are problems in that even those ‘dog friendly’ policies stipulate that dogs should not be allowed in kitchen areas. That would rule out the clean room.

As Neil has pointed out, there are real safety issues in the electronics area. There are also trip hazards with a dog on a lead. A dog in the space can also be a distraction, and distractions are an issue. The 3D print area should absolutely not allow dogs. It’s an area where resin is used. We should not increase the risk of spillage. Dog hair in a resin print or a screenprint could also be an issue.

There is no compelling reason I can see for allowing dogs in the space with the exception of registered guide dogs. Conversely there are numerous reasons against. There is a seating area outside and the brewery next door. People can bring their dogs to those areas. Inside the space should be clearly not allowed.

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#14

what are the rules around granting doggos shutter access?

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#15

adding a serious response as I felt a growing sense of guilt for my non-serious response: to me it is lunacy to allow non-guide dogs in the space. I can’t see how it would be appropriate at all and agree with those above flagging safety concerns. It’s unfair to expect people to agree/decline doggo access each time (do those arriving later then have to live with it, or could they then ask the dog to leave? what if they’re not in that room at the time?).

It makes sense to me to have a clear/blanket dogs welcome only outside rule. Dog lovers could build a kennel/dog house/drinking bowl for outside perhaps?

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#16

I am allergic to horses and children, can we ban those too?

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#17

I absolutely love dogs but in all circumstance humans must take priority over dogs/pets of any sort.

My office allows dogs, but the policy is you must let everyone know in advance, and just one person saying no means no dog. They get around the social pressure to not say no with the HR team, you can tell them rather than saying something directly to the dog owner.

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#18

I’d lean towards no dogs in the space. Dannz and mimeto make good points: it’s not just that we don’t have a space where dogs can be without increasing risk to them and humans, but managing the access of members who arrive to a space with a dog in it (where that presents an issue to them) becomes a problem. Service dogs are a separate issue of course (and they are all very highly trained to mitigate just this sort of thing).

Sympathy to the dog owners among us though, I know it’s a tricky issue.

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#19

If people feel strongly about it ask the @directors to do a poll at the next meeting

Dogs allowed
Dogs not allowed

Limiting it to just service animals, is incredibly restrictive - Its very very difficult to get a dog registered and costs literally thousands plus 2 years training in the UK and many owners have to self train to get around the shortage and thus are not able to get the certification as we found out. We had to get a dog for number of issues for our daughter.

Such a policy banning dogs will mean she is no longer able to come to the space as the two are now inseparable and while we are paying for the training for it to be a service dog, this will take 2 years.

#20

You make a good point - either outcome, we should definitely focus on helping as many people as possible make stuff safely and happily. I’d be in favour of a loose definition of “service” dog to that end.

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#21

I’d be up for banning horses too but I reckon kids are okay

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