I think we’ve lost too much desk space with this layout.
We could keep the two new big benches like on the new layout. And have normal tables along the wall like we had before. You could then have another smaller electonic bench, General PC desk (have we lost that now in this layout?), shelving like on the plan. And xyz down the textiles end.
@boldaslove I share your concern about losing general desk space, it’s always tight in there on Electronics Nights with the number of people who turn up as it is, so the conversations Pip, myself and Joe had factored in keeping the center desk untouched. Additionally we’ve spoken with Howard and yourself to get input from other perspectives, and I fully intend to speak with Courty too.
However, I think it is important to recognise that there is going to have to be a compromise in order to fit everything in the clean area, as the electronics area has been cut into two small areas by a fire exit that had to be planned after.
To address the two concerns you raised:
1. Loss of desk space
It’s probably best to look at these things objectively by quantifying the space lost.
By removing those two benches, we’ve lost sitting space for two members, however in creating the electronics benches, we’ve created 3 sitting spaces.
Perhaps, more importantly those benches along the wall aren’t that popular. Probably because they are not very sociable and it’s uncomfortable for post people to have their backs to the room.
From a practical perspective, it’s hard to have people sitting at those desks along the wall when there are others sat at the enter tables they are too close together, and the center table can’t move over any more as it already sits in the red exit lane.
Historically people have used those benches only to access the stuff on them like the laser cutter computer, electronics bench, or more recently the general purpose computer, the good news is all of these things have been or will be relocated in the new layout.
In summary: We lose two less ideal locations but gain three spaces which provide specialist electronics workbenches.
2. General purpose computing
There are a few options envisaged here:
The electronics benches both have computers on, with the idea being you can easily pop on one of these for general purpose browsing.
There is a laptop in the space now.
There will both computers on both the laser cutter and the CNC/3D printer area which can be used.
We could also fit one with a wireless keyboard to the social area TV.
So while we won’t have a dedicated area for a computer that is general purpose, the point of the machine is just for quick looking things up and most people bring their laptop anyways, so between these 6 computers I am hoping one will be able to be used for a quick look up.
If needs be we can stick one one under the center table also.
The benches aren’t popular because they have always had junk on them. So no one has used them.
I’ve never had a problem getting past people sitting down there even with 6 people using the space and the electronics and the PC.
I don’t think we would have people sitting back to back. There’s never been any where near that much demand for space that there would be a need for every chair around the table and the other benches to be used back to back. In normal time. If that did become a problem I would think we had too many members. Or could think again. There would be additional chairs for meetings that could easily be turned round to face the main table.
I think we need 2 electronic benches. We could have 2 plus the soldering with the old layout. Perhaps the soldering bench is that too? I don’t know.
And I think we need a PC for general use in that room. For visitors. People without laptops. People not wanting to get their laptops out. For printing stuff quickly. Or for printing when people aren’t around to explain how to connect to the printer.
We could thin the main table if it really is an issue. But I don’t think it is.
But if its the majority decision we should go with that.
Re read your general PC paragraph.
Maybe we don’t need one with all those PCs and a laptop. Let’s see.
The benches along the back were really useful when I was building Tekton. I think they felt more secure - power without trailing cables etc., and less risk than the main table of somebody brushing past or coming into the space and dumping something down without quite realising what’s going on. So that’s not intrinsically tied to tables at the back, but to consider.
I do have a concern if the electronics ‘station’ is singular and can only accommodate small pieces. The long bench was very flexible.
Its very hard to see if this new layout works while the space is such s mess as a result of the shift of furniture. It definitely feels smaller at the moment, plus the freed-up wall space has no clear purpose. What has it been freed up for?
And why is such a large gap needed between the big table and textiles?
I don’t agree that the big table being full means we have too many members: it’s been full loads of times, and if the side desks hadn’t been piled with electronics stuff they would likely have been used more. It might have meant shifting the big table over a bit to make it work.
In any case please don’t throw out any desks until we’ve lived with it a bit.
I have to respectfully disagree, it is too narrow to traverse when there are people on both sides.
Then why are the desks there?
Sorry, but again I have to respectfully disagree, several of the electronics evenings even since you’ve joined have been overflowing the center table, and more before that.
The issue is that the electronics benches won’t fit if we put the table back the other way, so will have to be substantially reduced in size, in order to create two narrower tables, or we will have to make the center table smaller which is often already overflowing.
I am not sure how the electronics benches in @pips drawing don’t fulfil the secure power without trailing cables criteria as they are also along the wall and will have integrated sockets on the bench.
However the whole point of the rearrangement is to make space for a proper sized electronics bench, something that can’t happen along the wall where Tekton was done. a 3’ 3" desk along that wall would leave no space to move let alone sit.
We disagree it’s fine. 
Did you look at the floor plan @pip drew?
By rotating the bench we make space for substantially larger electronics benches on that side, benches we need to make before we can see the benefit of the new layout.
Textiles have yet to figure out a plan because @boldaslove is also waiting for the other techs to return.
I agree with your first point, however I am not sure what you mean shifting it over, it already sits bang on the red line with people sitting in the fire exit route, which they shouldn’t be in an ideal world, but the route is quite wide.
I had no plan of throwing them out but we need to buy or make the new furniture before we can have any idea if it will work.
Cardboard
I don’t see how that will help.
There is a drawing, we just need to meet in the space if people really have an issue, and this isn’t just a classic case of Discourse being the wrong medium for this conversation.
If a judgement on space needs to be made, and it can only be done with them built, mock the desks up in cardboard. With big sheets it’s quick and easy.
@directors when is the next general meeting, feel like this would be discussed there?
The large format printer is only 750mm deep when the paper catcher is folded away which it is 99% of the time.
The following gives us enough space I think with more for @textilestechs and computer table and LF printer.
And this one includes vinyl cutter storage (wheel out for use) plus shelves for stationary / textiles
Thoughts:
The computer desk prevents access to the storage at the back of the electronics bench. Maybe it could move over towards textiles and switch the printer around so it can be wheeled away to access the storage.
It’s not a good idea to put the textiles benches in front of the electrical distribution board, as we need access to that. I think @boldaslove has a layout in mind that accommodates for this. We also need to maintain fast access to the water stop valve in the floor.
Seems like the computer desk is surplus to requirements, there are loads of computers in that room already.
Have we figured out how access to the Large Printer will work, when I asked @peter_hellyer, he said it was really expensive and he wasn’t sure.
I like this one better. Obvs.
And might be a good idea to talk this over at a general meeting.
(In reply to your message, but not directed at you, more a general point @directors ):
But could I ask we don’t have that in the meeting agenda until textiles have had a chance to talk and look at this properly.
We have been used as a dumping ground up until now. And for the foreseeable future. Until that mess is out the way and we get a chance to look and talk about what we want in that space and what layout we want I don’t think it’s fair for us to have to commit to anything. It’s annoying delaying I realise. But we should be given an opportunity to look at this properly like all the other areas have had.
I think we need to make some progress, we can’t just declare that everything is dependent on everything else, otherwise nothing can happen. I am keen for us to get electronics finished sorted. So we need to find a way forward.
It might be more productive to work together to tidy up the stuff that is there, it’s a relatively new pile of materials since the building salvage and it shouldn’t be stored there. Some bits have @joeatkin2’s name on them, so he should remove those ASAP or they should be disposed of. Some of it could be stored in the snug for now, and some of it probably disposed of. This is only a couple of hours work.
Looking at @pip’s drawing we can probably rotate the table back the original way and I really like that there is a more practical use for this space than just empty desks.
Are you able to put in a bit of time over the weekend to sort this pile together?
Absolutely. I’d suggest that that half of the room is for textiles, the exact details can be figured out later if that’s amenable?
Then the back of the computer desk chair hits the back of the big table chair, which we want to avoid. The under desk electronics storage is a luxury extra (that wasn’t in the ‘signed agreement’ though this is no more ‘valid’). I think it can be sacrificed. You have storage above the desks and you could design under desk storage that wheels out the front of the desk?
There’s none at the moment, just your proposals for them, again these are just 1 members proposals right? So you’re saying, this layout isn’t your propsal? Well no, it’s my suggestion and yes it’s different to your suggestion. We’re still at the idea stage no design has been chosen.
RE computers -
Seems like a bad idea to me. Why have computers on electronics benches at all? If you need one, use the laptop?
It’s noisy in there, plus these will be at standing height
The sofas don’t face the screen, no good for prolonged use, plus I’m against everyone being able to so easily see whats on my screen.
A dedicated computer desk in the clean space will allow prolonged periods of use for tasks requiring concentration, at a proper working surface and chair. We could put in a fast spec machine for CAD / creative suite / Makerspace Admin etc for anyone to use, would be a great resource - design is at least 50% of making anything and there’s little resource here for that. Any members with low income might not have access to such a resource in the same way we don’t all have laser cutters at home. I’d go as far as to suggest investing in a recent-ish iMac for this purpose but a designated desk will suffice for now.
I’ve moved for electrical cupboard and water supply will need to be designed around, I’m sure we can do something as good as we’ve outlined for electronics for textiles.
I’m gonna be honest you are coming of as hostile towards me, in this and I don’t feel that it is necessary, I am not being like that towards you.
