Yeah, I’m a GP registrar at the moment - worked in ED , acute medicine, etc.
Being a doctor can be a bit odd when it comes to first aid as you are not routinely trained and to be a first aider would still have to do the same courses as the public.
For hospital we do advanced life support which covers in hospital cardiac arrest , manual defib etc. We’re a lot happier when we can stick needles in your artery and get an urgent portable xray, but it still revolves around CPR and defib.
Most of the cardiac arrest calls i’ve been to have not been cardiac arrest as the focus has shifted to ‘peri arrest’ so sounding the alarm when people are deteriorating rather than when their heart gives in.
But the genuine ones have been a mixed bag, lots of alcohol and drug related, many elderly who really were not going to survive CPR but a few young and old who we’ve got back into a decent rhythm onto a pace maker and they have done well.
This was discussed at length during the members meeting, there was a lot of passion about the topic, all in favour of having an AED, but with various views of how to achieve this and who it should be for.
Some viewed the priority as being an AED funded by SLMS, for SLMS, with some degree of telling people in the area it exists but not listed online 24x7 due to access issues.
Others (including myself) felt it should be for us and the community and we should compromise it being inside SLMS in exchange for it being a community asset, particularly given the ~£1,500 cost and low likelihood of SLMS actually ever needing it due to our relatively low population.
Previously we’ve explored funding which was rejected due to the restricted opening. I have proposed that we explore putting the AED outside the main gates in a secure cabinet which would be available 24x7, that we then reapply for funding in what would be a 24x7 access location right by SLMS.
The benefit of this approach is we save the £1,500 install cost if it’s funded, @joeatkin2 agreed he would install this and we could focus our money on maintenance of the machine and saving for the future of the space while still having an AED within 1 minute of SLMS.
It was agreed to allow me 2 weeks to explore this option and I have started by reaching out to the Herne Hill Forum who’ve already said they’ve been looking at this too.
I plan to work with them to contact the 2 businesses either side of the gate about this idea, and if approved work with the directors to resubmit an application in the new agreed location.
In the previous discussion, questions were raised about legal liability for a responder. The first port of call re: resuscitation in the UK is the Resuscitation Council.
This is Resus Councils document regarding CPR, AEDs, and the law:
Similarly, this is the overview of AEDs:
Apologies, I was not at the members meeting, so all this may have been covered. It is important we get a modern AED, as they are basically idiot-proofed, in that they walk the responder through what to do. Almost to the point that the responders job is to place the pads on the patient. Machine does most of the rest.
If you really want to be prepared, a prerequisite to shutter access should be being trained on the AED +/- formal Basic Life Support (BLS) certification, although that may be over the top.
That said, the above may all be overkill. Per Resus Council, the HSE does not mandate that employers or organisations provide an AED.
Just in regards to some additional points above, again which may have been covered in the members meeting:
AEDs are not only for cardiac arrest due to electrocution, or other arrhythmic event (yes, all cardiac arrest is ultimately arrhythmia, but various other things can lead to arrythmia which are not electrocution and which may be hazards that SLMS members are exposed to: trauma, chemicals, unknown genetic predispositions.
Over securing the AED will defeat the purpose. In a peri/arrest situation, seconds matter. So must have some kind of balance there.
Similarly it being lost in a pile or crap is useless.
The idea would be to put it in an outdoor cabinet on Norwood Road where it’s seconds away and the code is with London Ambulance Service which is a scheme run across London.
If the unit is situated in a public area, a “vandal-proof” cabinet with a code can also be bought/hired with it. A standard yellow box you ask about is definitely not suitable, it’ll be a matter of time before it gets stolen, these units are not cheap. We get the cabinet code as it’s privately hired by us and it’s “ours” to use. The company who hires it to us will need the code for maintenance. Adding the location of the AED to national defibrillator networks is purely optional but they will also require the code which can be passed to someone who called 999.
I don’t see getting to Norwood Road, accessing the cabinet and getting back to the Arch would be doable in just a few seconds. At a guess, I’d think a minute to a minute and a half is more realistic. Maybe it could be done in less, but let’s not kid ourselves and have a sound realistic idea about how long to get it to the Arch.
Getting the defibrillator from Herne Hill station might not take very much longer. Provided CPR can be given, there might not be any real difference to chance of survival. Maybe having training in CPR etc. for members with shutter access would be more beneficial (?).
I’ve had no reply from those people having sent a final reminder, so I will move onto going direct to Costcutter, I’m calling them tomorrow to ask for an email to write to the manager as it’s a franchise model so there is a guy who owns it, rather than some massive brand like Tesco.
Another update, someone from Herne Hill Forum has replied, planned to meet with him in January, no date yet, but also trying to shortcut this a bit and find out if he has a contact.
I’ve also take to just emailing Costcutter centrally and see where I get.
I would now recommend that we move on to ordering our own AED, it wasn’t clear which option we would pick in the last meeting, there appears to be 2 main options:
We just have the machine on a shelf inside the space.
We have an outdoor cabinet and code which we can still share publically but with limited hours.
There was also the option between buying or renting.
Hi all,
a relative works for British Heart Foundation. They’re currently working with the Post Office to have Defibs installed at every branch. I can find out if Herne Hill is getting one soon?
Or if you’d like to talk to someone relevant @ BHF i can get contact details (or i could enquire on our behalf?)