Shutter Access - use it or lose it (a proposal)

#1

Making hosting bookings in the calendar for when one is going to use the space is one of the responsibilities of having shutter access. Too often though, members don’t make bookings, and that’s really inconvenient and difficult for members without shutter access.

A suggestion then is that members who have not hosted at least 10 hours in a year should lose shutter access. Either they don’t need it or they aren’t meeting the responsibilities that go with having SA. If everyone with SA hosted at least 10 hours a year, then access would be a great deal easier for members without SA.

Personally I’d rather members with SA just make bookings as they are meant to - that would be a better way, but that’s not happening.

If you are a member with SA who would find it very inconvenient if you lost it because you have booked less than 10 hours hosting in the past year, then rather than gripe, start making bookings for when you come here. Bear in mind that members without SA outnumber those who have it, and have an equal vote in members meetings.

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Multiple calendar entries - there has to be a better way..!
#2

Probably something to add for the next members meeting, but for myself, I never know when or what time I am going to be in the space, nor do I know when I will be leaving.
And the booking system needs to be made simpler imo

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#3

I think the more impactful issue to resolve is hosts logging the space as open. It’s easy to forget to do, especially for folks who aren’t hosting often.

Which leads to a second point: not hosting isn’t an indication of lack of commitment or interest, it merely reflects that they weren’t the member opening the space. Dozens of folks with shutter access probably arrive and leave when someone else is hosting, and that shouldn’t result in their shutter access being removed.

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#4

well if this becomes implemented then i will cancel my membership and not bother with the space again.

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#5

Hello dear sir,:smiley: as far as im concerned you are part of the family and always will be . (one of us , one of us , one of us ) besides its always nice to see you . Keep well . Brian D=

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#6

Hi Dan,

I see you’re trying to solve a real problem in a volunteering and self managed community here but my experience is that when you try and do that via punishment you end up with two problems and not coming closer to a solution. @electronoob’s reaction for reference.

I am also not a fan of the false impression people can get from such ideas in terms of the culture of our place here. If the makerspace becomes another place with tons of rules and red tape (outside of health and safety requirements and care for tools and space); well this isn’t the place for free thinkers and tinkerers who put a lot in to make the space what it is.

I’m with @hernehillier and @lewisss here that it’s not always easy to plan in advance if you have job or family commitments and often the place simply is open (trying to remember last time I had to use my shutter to actually open during after work hours, eventing / weekend times).

Usually it shows when the space is open by the green tick top right of discourse. New members can volunteer (opening nights, induction assistance, tool & space maintenance etc.) and will be rewarded SA and/or they can make friends and join forces which will reward one with more interesting people in life and less risk to stand in front of a closed shutter.

This is the way to fix that from my POV. Worked for me.

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#7

The booking system came from necessity during the pandemic and turned out to be useful enough to stick around. All it’s supposed to be is a better enabler for planning than an “is the space open now” indicator. I’ve barely ever used it, because in the last few years I’ve always visited the space on a saturday or sunday afternoon, when I know it will be open anyway, and haven’t had the need to eg. book the laser cutter for hours at a time.

My experience with SLMS and similar places/organisations is that mandatory beuracracy should be a last resort. Nobody wants to administer it and nobody wants to participate in it. Solutions should be social/cultural, not procedural, wherever possible.

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#8

Then we need to get more people with shutter access to address this!

When we had a membership of around 200 there was no booking systems for anything, you just turned up and if someone was on the laser or 3d printer you waited or worked round them.

The woodshop does not have a booking system for any of the tools there, we are a community that helps each other and work together.

I haven’t had to open the shutter or lock the shutter this year, every time I have been there the space was open and every time I have left there were key holders there.

We have a membership capacity now where it is unlikely the space is ever closed during daytimes and evenings.

It should be a free and accessible environment for all members.

I would suggest that rather than punishing people for not using a difficult and hard to find booking system, we should put in process a defined way to get shutter access and be explaining to all new members on joining what they have to do to get shutter access.

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#9

Oh, and I would also add that the only reason we have this class system is the “two front doors” situation. If the whole space was behind a single secure door, then every member would be able to open it. It’s purely because the front door & windows are insecure that we have a shutter at all!

So I suppose you can add “design” to “social” and “cultural” in the list of solutions :slight_smile:

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#10

Hi all,

The booking system is not great. We definitely need to improve it.

But just to be clear this is just a suggestion of one way to encourage bookings, not something we will necessarily ever implement.

Some stats for all of us, of our 515 members, only 63 have shutter access, that is just 12%. So there are 452 members that must rely on the rest of you to let them know when it will be open and they can come and use the tools.

So would be nice to find a way to make this work better for everyone!

We are adding more members to help with Systems so hopefully will have some more bandwidth to fix things, but in the end we need to be able to support ad-hoc (pop-in) use and planned sessions (bookings) while making the space as accessible as possible to all members.

Thanks!

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#11

Thanks Christian. I’m really not in favour of having rules like that -

As I see it, once one goes down that path, it becomes bureaucratic and not the healthy positive culture which is at the core of things working well.

However there is a real world problem as I think we all recognise. I don’t see that suggestion as the solution. I’m sure there’s a better way. Sometimes it can be helpful to be a bit provocative to stimulate reactions and discussion.

What you are saying about the answer being to get people to having SA is a really good approach IMO. But we still have a real world problem. Taking the approach you suggest, let’s then look at the bottlenecks in that and address those - if that’s going to be our way of tackling this. One of the bottlenecks is the limit of one vouch per month. There is currently at least one member who should have SA, but doesn’t yet. So maybe we should be having a discussion about how to making getting SA quicker/easier in suitable cases. And perhaps we also need to give clearer guidance to new members on what is needed and that pathway e.g. giving examples of ways people have contributed and participated and become fully part of the community, and suggestions besides just volunteering at open evenings.

Maybe we ask people who are seeking SA to host e.g. 40 hours in the first year - which also is part of contributing to the community. (?)

So yes - exactly - let’s figure out a solution to this real problem that works for the community - and which is better and smarter than dumb punitive rules. Usually the best way to get to good solutions is by having this kind of conversation.

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#12

That is shocking!

Can we set up some way of getting more routes to achieving shutter access. Be it hosting an open evening, or being active in the space!

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#13

Hosting an open evening can be very daunting (what does that machine do?). Some people are introverts and it wouldn’t suit them.

‘Being active in the space’ isn’t something that is clear, specific and actionable. There are lots of ways people could contribute, but to new members it’s often not clear how. My suggestion would be to go talk to the techs in an area which is of interest. Ask them what might be done to help out. It may seem a bit obvious, but guidance like that can be helpful for someone finding their feet. And maybe revise the limit of 1 vouch per month, increasing that for techs or e.g. Festival organiser.

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#14

We need to be better about calling out opportunities to help, ie. make the space days etc. It is definitely not easy for members to figure out where they can contribute…

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#15

Some people don’t put themselves forward and make a request even though they warrant having SA. Some people might also feel uncomfortable putting themselves forward like that. It can be a kind of insidious indirect discrimination. It’s possible it may disadvantage women - which is the last thing that should be happening. That’s another thing to consider.

#16

EDIT: It seems this information I was told about access is wrong. Waiting for information about the rules.

I have already notified @joatkins2 some weeks ago that at the next members meeting I plan to put forward a proposal to change the rules about gaining Shutter access to members.

I understand and sympathise with the hosts of open evenings, as a cofounding director I spent years being one of the regular hosts and appealing for more help.

But Makerspace is a community organisation where we all pay our fees to have access to the space and if you can’t use it because there’s no one there to let you in then the rules have basically gone too far.

I remember before the pandemic. It was basically only closed on major holidays and really early in the morning.

My proposal will be to remove the open night hosting requirement and change it for 3 months + the usual 2 vouches and director discretion.

Clearly something is wrong when we have 63 shutterers and 515 members. It’s time to change the system to enable members to more quickly gain access.

If we have an open evening problem then let’s find other ways to deal with that. But I suspect when your members feel they can use the space freely and gain value, they’ll be more inclined to help keep their space running.

If not we may need to consider budgeting for this as we do with cleaning and other tasks people don’t want to do.

I hope this isn’t too controversial, and I hope members will join me in voting in support of an amendment to this rule at the next meeting.

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#17

That isn’t a requirement - there isn’t a rule like that. Hosting an open evening is a suggestion of a way that someone might contribute.

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#18

I am sorry for my mistake. That’s what I’ve been told since returning.

Does anyone know what the rules are then?

It used to be 2 vouches + director discression only.

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#19

I believe its still that, but there is a heavy, perhaps unofficial, emphasis that vouches should only be given if a member has been contributing and I think thats part of the problem that puts people off. Obviously contributing is amazing and should be encouraged, but I don’t know if we can expect everyone to help out and I don’t believe we make it that easy for new members to know what they can help with beyond open evenings.

I agree with you Tom that if a member has been around for 3 months and using the space enough that should probably be enough.

#20

Yep that’s it. And there is a rule that can only give one vouch a month. Quite a lot of the members with SA are only in occasionally and do their own thing, and have limited interaction with new members. The vouch pool can then be quite slim - down from 63 to a lot fewer. Hence suggesting that techs should be able to have e.g. 5 vouches a month.

But contributing and playing a part in running the space is important, and by doing that.members get to know the ropes and become part of it.