Place is closed because of "nobody with shutter access" is around

#1

I would like to use the space today. I’ve been refreshing this page in hope that someone with master access will show up, no luck so far, the red X is showing. I understand the policy, only certain people as shutter access.

I think we need to have an open conversation with the members and bring other possible safe and sound solutions to the table.

This is my idea, but I understand that may be difficult to implement.

  1. Access Tiers: Introduce different access tiers based on experience and training. Novice members would have limited access initially, while more experienced members would be granted full access (current). This would ensure that the space remains safe while allowing for increased access options.
  2. Rotating Responsibility: Create a rotating schedule where certified members take turns being responsible for opening and closing the space. This way, the burden doesn’t fall solely on a few individuals, and the space can remain open during different time slots.
  3. Emergency Backup System: Develop a contingency plan for situations when certified members are unavailable. Identify a backup list of members who can step in to open and close the space in emergencies or unexpected circumstances.
  4. Regular Review and Updates: Establish a policy review process to assess the effectiveness of the new system. Gather feedback from members and make necessary adjustments to ensure safety and efficiency.
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#2

The X is flaky. @Kyle any signs that it’s currently misbehaving?

There is a booking for now, @Karin should be in the space.

#3

Shutter log shows it should be in the down position but there’s tool log items showing that it’s not…

I will disable the indicator

#4

I definitely think improvements can be made to the current process. However:

Rotating Responsibility: Create a rotating schedule where certified members take turns being responsible for opening and closing the space. This way, the burden doesn’t fall solely on a few individuals, and the space can remain open during different time slots

I think this is fundamentally against the ethos of the space as it would require (if I’m interpreting what you’re saying correctly) certain members to show up on a schedule. As of today, the burden of keeping the space open does not fall only upon a few people, any of the dozens of members with shutter access are able to open the space. They should, if planning on coming to the space, create a booking on the calendar for the benefit of members with access, which I know many of us have been lax to do. Though it looks like there is a booking until 6.

Here is the current shutter policy:
https://discourse.southlondonmakerspace.org/t/how-to-access-the-space/52/36

I’ll also add, very occasionally, the red X/green tick can bug out, showing red when it should be green. - I’d trust the booking on the calendar over a red X

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#5

Hi Manuel,

The space runs because a lot of people donate a large amount of time each week to make the space work. I would encourage you to join in the effort and help out with an open evening, become an inductor, or grab a item or two from the volunteering hub https://discourse.southlondonmakerspace.org/t/volunteer-hub/25549

In each tour of the space it should be explained that only the cleaner gets paid and we expect every member to help out the community. Hopefully yours included that! We’re a community and every bit counts!

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#6

Got it, I’m doing my best to help, and since we’re on the subject I was asked to help making a better “try Square/Other” support shelving. Please make some ply available so I’ll be able to do job.
I’ve fixed a draw near to the Chop-saw last Sunday. It will take a bit of time for me to adapt to the space so please bear with me, cheers.

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#7

I would like to say that time is not an issue for me (at least for now) :smile:

#8

Sounds like the @woodtechs would be great in finding places for you to chip in and and then vouch for you!

#9

I am at the space since 13:30 and the shutter was already up when I came.

#10

I’m also here now and will be until textiles night at least, probably longer

#11

@MNU the space is shown as open on the calendar

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#12

Hi Max,

Thanks for your insight, I guess point 2 and 3 are out of context, what about points 1 and 4? Are they worth to discuss?

I just wanted to clarify the following.

I fully understand and respect the flexible nature of our community, and I want to ensure that any of the proposed changes align with the ethos of the space.

#13

Thanks,

I just want to make clear I didn’t check the space in person, I said that “the red X is showing” and DunkanK allready said “The X is flaky.”

#14

If the shutter starts going down and an emergency stop is hit whilst shutter still way up high it shows X.

#15

1 seems to be in line with current policy, the tiers are members with and without shutter access. 4 is something I think is a good idea for any policy, it makes sense to review alternatives and improvements.

#16

At the moment the space is not accessible for members without shutter access because of lack of clarity when it might be open. It’s very unfair on them and a real problem. That problem might be addressed if all members with shutter access made bookings on the calendar as should happen. The fact is that at the moment that isn’t happening. It might be helpful to get down to basics and understand the reasons why people are being lax about making bookings. Is it that it is fiddly and difficult? (Do we need to consider something more user-friendly or to have a training in it?) is it not wanting to have to commit to being there? Just overlooking it? Lack of awareness of how difficult it makes it for members without shutter access? Other reasons?

The other thing to consider is what might be done which would get full compliance with making bookings as per the shutter access policy. Do we need to consider monitoring whether someone opening the space has made a booking? Reminders could be sent to those who open the space without a booking. Demerit points could even be given, with e.g. a one month suspension of shutter access for persistent failure to comply with that responsibility after reminders/warnings.

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#17

I think SLMS opened up to too many new members too fast so to accommodate that we seem to have the need to change some of the old membership, not even talking about the unclarity of VAT or processes or anti-opression - or inclusivity. Maybe.

Booking carries a lot of positive effects and has been for sure a net positive.
We have too many members to tell everyone to book, but maybe - maybe - if a new shutter access holder gets an access there can be a 3(?) month period when they have to book - that would overlap nicely and add to those who already book. The space was open today as well as Karin’s post was in calendar. This conversation might have started because of the open/close symbols being flaky.

I’d like to focus on architecture of choice, not change of behavior. Also the term volunteering and being a member isn’t very accurate. Volunteers don’t pay to volunteer. Some people volunteer doing some roles like directors and admins and techs, some people teach people with extremely subsidised and symbolic monetary exchange - inductors , and some people just come and use tools, but usually it’s a mixture.

I am mentioning this only due to the expectation that is being imposed on members eventually and at this point, with so many short comings, I’d not try to extrapolate one aspect of makerspace. (Mind that I do book and think people should generally too, but noone should be forced to)

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#18

But that’s how it is - no? Anyone who has SA who is in the space at a time when there isn’t a booking should make a booking. If others have booked the times when one is going to be there, then no need of course. So I don’t really understand how it’s too many members to expect people to comply with that responsibility.

Is there perhaps already a kind of tacit practice that once one gets SA, then after a time (3 months or so), one can be lax and booking is optional? The fact is most people are lax and it isn’t working. Is the current system too cumbersome?

An alternative approach might be to explore the possibility of having a few ‘resident members’ - a few members who might be able to commit to being at the space on a regular basis and who might get allocated storage space and maybe a locker.

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#19

it’s way simpler than that. if you don’t need to check bookings to come down you won’t think about bookings at all. therefore you don’t post.

also i can’t always be sure how long i’ll be at the space. sometimes i plan for something to take hours but it takes minutes, or vice versa. sometimes a machine is out of action. maybe i get paged. lately i solve this by posting bookings with vague end times, but that’s far from ideal.

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#20

It’s easy - if the place isn’t booked, tool control locks, alarm rings, shutter goes down automatically and then electricity switches off. But I’ve been told that apparently some people are not fond of these ideas…

On the reasons, there’s a mix of all of them really.

when there isn’t a booking should make a booking

That’s one thing to address, when you’re in the space already you don’t know and you’re not reminded.

it is fiddly

That’s another reason. This can be fixed. It should be one click process.

not wanting to have to commit

Or just don’t bother. This should be discouraged. Any ideas?

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