Industrial vacuum cleaner spec

We need new Hitachi batteries? I can email asking if they’d supply more, plus it would be worth trying a hand held vac if it’s free?

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There’s no harm in asking Hitachi for a couple of the handheld dustbusters - they might be useful for the electronics benches? But they won’t replace the need for something industrial to do the whole place with and something quick and easy for spot cleaning the floor in the clean room.

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Saw an advert for the Shark cordless. Apparently scored higher than Dyson on survey. Anyone got any experience of using one.?Any good?

I had this info from a Festool supplier:

Hi,

The H class machine is the top end of filtration and covers hazardous dusts, even as bad as Asbestos.

If that is a touch too high in spec then the M class machine is suitable for wood products. These bags are more cost effective at £31.00 for 5, and there is a reusable bag available for £120.

From: Festool (Powertool Supplies) festool@fixingsupplies.co.uk
Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 8:10:00 AM
To: sarah.jones09@hotmail.co.uk
Subject: RE: Question: [584139] Festool Mobile dust extractor CTH 26 E 240V CLEANTEX

Hi,

The CTH machine uses a bag that is thrown away, this isn’t very cheap for a true H class bag. £44.29 for 3 bags.

Does the machine need to be H class?

Hello all,

As someone who spent 20 years on and off on building sites I would never claim to have seen it all - but I can offer my few pennies, and perhaps save us some in the process :wink:

I have used professional tools and thankfully by the time approaching £1k has been spent they are usually a joy to work with. Alas, even the very tough ones can be misused, and the service/spare charges can be brutal!
When I set up my own business I could not justify a high-end tool, so I had to get creative. The result that has served me very well with all kinds of hoovering of dry matter is a hack I would propose to you - I don’t have any photos of my rig as it is on a site in Walthamstow (I am the nicest builder I have ever met, the clients live back in their house but I lent them the beast…).

I looked for the cheapest vacuum recommended on some builders forums, and found this one:


advantages: has a bag, but can be used without. Has a filter which is not cheap, but washable. I bought a spare filter, and every Friday after leaving site I would take one home and use the garden hose to clean it properly. Both filters have been with me for a couple of years and show hardly any wear.

The trick: Very little dust ever enters the vacuum cleaner. Because two more items get grafted onto it - a vortex separator:


mated tightly with any old bin, as long as it is properly air-tight:

and to hook it all up a length of cheap hose and some good quality gaffa tape and…
Well, I had my doubts. But I have seen good quality vacuum cleaners die of clogging and overheating ten minutes after they met fine red stone dust. And this combination… it lasts. And it, erm, really sucks!
Fine dust will clog up the final filter after a few hours - but by that time the blue bucket has already been emptied two or three times, and the Metabo only has a smattering of stuff in it’s own collector. And that’s when you swap the filter, and all is as new.

Some folks have lashed this combo onto a trolley, i.e.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/finewoodworking.s3.tauntoncloud.com/app/uploads/2016/09/06051623/Resize_of_Re-exposure_of_IMG_1682.JPG or even quite posh: https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.makermasters.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F04%2FS19900081.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.makermasters.com%2Fdiy-cnc-project-dust-deputy-cyclone-separator-cart&docid=RE4_P4wEPs7IuM&tbnid=tTxR25OOWTcvXM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjakvrnvtzWAhViF8AKHe1tCyQQMwgvKAkwCQ..i&w=1200&h=1600&bih=759&biw=1436&q="dust%20deputy"%20bucket%20vacuum&ved=0ahUKEwjakvrnvtzWAhViF8AKHe1tCyQQMwgvKAkwCQ&iact=mrc&uact=8

I would happily offer to build a system like that for the space if you get the parts (which of course do not need to come from Amazon, the filters for my Metabo came from a specialist cheap reseller).

If on the other hand you want to buy a Festool or three, I would not refuse to use those :stuck_out_tongue:

As an aside, using a pre-separator is still a good idea for professional tools. Especially when vacuuming around metal workshops, it’s nice not to have sharp bits rattling around your expensive hardware - the vortex separators are incredibly efficient, and the buckets are nice to carry out and tip out!

Toodles,
Hanry (not the vacuum! But they’re ok too!)

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Nice. Didn’t know about this sort of thing. Thanks for sharing.

How easily can you hook it up to power tools and how good is it at extraction when attached to a tool?

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Well, how long is a piece of vacuum hose? :slight_smile:

For hooking up to power tools… in my experience there is no standard whatsoever, at least none that is observed in the wild. I would suggest buying a range of adapters and once we find a universal-ish model, get a whole bag of them. They should never be cross-used (have a bag in the wood-workshop, one in the metal area etc.) as these bits are where splinters and burrs cause injuries.

Bear in mind that this is independent of what vacuum system we choose in the end - attaching them is a variable experience! Not just because of diameters - some tools are actually designed with the hose in mind - others become awkward to handle, as it clearly was an afterthought. Also, one of my tools has a nice, well designed vacuum port, but the internals are built such that most of the crud still flies everywhere. Another tool channels almost all of it to the port when the vacuum is on, to the point that I get confused when I start working and no dust comes out :wink: Your dustage will vary!

Especially with the enlargement of the woodworking area under discussion, we could also look into a much more central system. Get a massive vacuum system installed on the outside wall, run pipes into the areas that need it with ports, like this: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQDbpncvHxFF4YLlskPj56SsID_EREsyuHPr14Juwj-4zAZws-_
Needs some planning and prep, but in the long term it might be a better solution - less noise in the workshops, less clutter and fewer trip hazards, and emptying only once a month, if that :wink:

(I have seen such systems made mostly from recycled components, worked very well - separate vortex cyclones for each area, into individual containers for recycling. Even tap-offs for solder station extractors…)

I an in favour of this sort of thing as the festool has a big footprint

I am in favour of the festool as joe has big feet

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I will take that as a compliment :grinning:

Not executed from you though

So what’s the verdict on the industrial vacuum? Is the Festool so big that we don’t want it even if we could get it half price?

And is H class overkill? Should we be looking for an M class?

It would be jolly nice if we could make a decision on this before the clean room is knee deep in dust again.

Have you had good input from the techs in Clean and Messy? @metaltechs @silkscreentechs @electrotechs @textilestechs @3dtechs @lasertechs any any other interested parties?

The large Axminster vaxuum isn’t good for this I’m assuming?

The l,m and h classifications are mostly about how much dust is retained by the vac and how much gets though the filter and blown into the room air.
There are obviously H&S minimum requirements, but also over and above that there are comfort requirements. we probably do not need more than the equivalent of a m or l class vac… however we might want more than that to keep the dust under control.

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But we in theory shouldn’t have dusty activities in those workshops? That’s me assuming the wodsshop is dealing with it’s own dust.

Doesn’t really stop the proliferation of dust

Yes the reality is that we have the same dust everywhere. People go from room to room, doors get propped open and the dust settles wherever it wants to.

I guess!

Some of that is due to lack of ventilation in woodshop, and large gaps under the doors…however there’ll always be some dust migration into other areas, and we need the vacuum to not blow that back out.

That’s clearer for me now.

It’s supposedly going to cut dust down a fair bit, I believe.

Totally up for this.

the allowed filter leakage of dust per kg of dust collected by the vacuum cleaner is

class L 10g/kg of dust
class m 1g/kg of dust
class h 0.05g/kg of dust

which is why i was suggesting that for major cleaning the the clean room and in the wood room we would want to consider using a h-grade filter, despite probably only needed an m class vac in the wood room.

BTW I am not suggesting we get a h class vac as I believe we have a hard time getting it repaired. I am suggesting a m class vac fitted with h class filters