Inductions process issues

#1

Hi all,

I’ve been a member for a week now, and I would like to raise an issue of the way inductions work.
So I’m very new to this community and very happy to have joined.

Naively, after some people introduced me to the concept of this place, I thought that I can learn and share my knowledge with some passionate people. Socialising is one of the things I am looking for.
I went through this forum, landing on the inductions pages. And became worried.

The waiting list is so big, let’s say for 3D printing, that I looked at the frequency of the training. I realised that it’s based on volunteers, fair enough, I like it. But it’s gonna take me three or four months to be inducted to just use the 3D printers. I even don’t see when is the next one… And I have no idea how long it’s going to take to use the others tools. 6 months? I will be the 60th person on the waiting list just for the 3D printers. I looked at the black board in the space to see when will be the next inductions, found no information. Is there a time table, a Google Calendar somewhere that gives us a sense of the time to wait?

Now, I’m playing the devil advocate, bare in mind I’m completely new to this space, I might be wrong.
But if I pay my membership for three months until I can potentially be inducted, what are the reasons I would like to stay? I can, that’s not the problem, but I see here an issue if you want to have more new members like me joining.

I’m not good at calculation, let’s say you have x active paid members. That makes x per month revenue. Rather than blocking people who really want to interact with this space, wouldn’t be a great idea to have a paid trainer who weekly to “clean” that waiting list?

If the volunteers are too busy to do the induction, you know what, I’m up to pay a little fee to be inducted by a paid pro.

Basically, what I’m saying, is atm I don’t see the value for me to pay £20/month if I have no idea when I will be inducted to the tools I would like to use.

I like this space. I already met wonderful people. But I feel stuck in your process and I’m writing this to help us (new members) to get inducted (faster?).
I came to FabLab 2 years ago, and it was a smooth, scheduled pro induction. I’m sure you know them quite well, is there anything we can learn from other Hacker Space we can use here to make it easier?

Thanks

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CNC Induction Process
#2

I suppose it’s worth saying first that Makerspace isn’t a service and has a very different model to Fab Lab, and that this inductions issue is common amongst other Maker and Hacker Spaces, although perhaps not to the same extent as outs has built up to.

I don’t believe that paying someone to do the inductions is the right fit for Makerspace, it devalues the volunteer efforts that are what keeps the space running, whether that be the directors dealing with all the admin, @roles maintaining areas, or the back of house people like welcome, events and systems that keep everything running.

At a members meeting a couple months ago we talked about the issue of getting members to do more around the space, when we started out we had no space, no tools or anything, and yet we paid our membership fee to get things started, and then for a good couple of years or more we spent most of the time at the space making it. When this period of working on the space came to an end people took a break, and while we have some spurts of work on things theres quite a lot left unfinished, and people aren’t helping out around the space as they ideally should.

This issue of lack of helping in the space manifests in the inductions where there’s really only one guy doing 3D printing and family life has necessarily had to take priority for him, it also manifests in the tidiness, the events as someone was commenting on, and the finishing of space infrastructure.

This isn’t a criticism but an observation, and members seemed interested in the idea of some kind of credit system during that meeting, where perhaps people can earn points through doing stuff around the space, and certain privileges like key holder status have to be maintained by earning enough points, or something like that.

In the short term I think the @directors need to have a think about the 3D printer inductions, we don’t need them, numerous members including myself have said this, inductions are for safety, workshops are for learning, and the 3D printer induction is a workshop on how to 3D print, not how to safely use the machine, as it’s perfectly safe to use without an induction.

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#3

Couple of thoughts - the points idea for doing tasks/inductions around the space sounds like a good one. Perhaps inductions could be charged in points - and if you don’t have enough, an option to buy some more.

On 3D printer induction - it may be safe to the user to use without induction, but it is breakable etc - someone will inevitably take a chisel to the bed or such if not informed.

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#4

I am one of the two 3dtechs, but unfortunately I am also a wood tech and have been concentrating my efforts in that area.

However, the ultimaker machine is pretty straightforward to use.

(Basically if you can fit paper and cartridges into an inkjet printer you will have no problems using the ultimaker)

We have a few members that are looking to take over the @3dtechs role which will help the backlog.

However if I am in the space I am happy to run anyone that wants to through the use of the machine.

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#5

Sorry I thought you’d asked to step down which is why I didn’t mention your name. Sorry.

#6

Even with inductions that happens and in other areas we don’t have inductions for soldering but those irons are similarly damaged by misuse.

At my work I don’t induct students on the use of the printer but we have filament available that they can use which is known to be good and they are told which product ranges they can buy from.

We do the same with the laser cutter by saying what you can use and everything else is reviewed by the techs.

I agree we need some controls but you don’t need a long induction in 3D printing in order to be able to be inducted in its safe use.

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#7

Thanks for your lovely answers. In my job, I have to deal with complex projects where I manage the workflows. I can help to build a better scheduled/inductions process if needed.
Also I like the “points” system. It’s very manageable. Just to give an example, I joined a week ago. Went earlier today before the Open night. Cleaned all the space, clean the fridge and put some beers into it :slight_smile:

To welcome the new peeps who were brave enough to come against this rainy day.
(Is it good to share the beers? Or it’s not for that purpose?)

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#8

Maybe things like 3D printer (and silkscreening?) could be induction-by-video?

We could easily come up with a system that heavily encourages (no system is watertight admittedly but you can’t design for those rare, determined individuals) watching all the video e.g (not the only way but a quick idea) - a web page that has the video with no seek bar and some kind of test and or captcha that shows you have watched the video, successfully completed you get the permission added to your membership.

There’s a similar system in place for membership at the new Vauxhall climbing / bouldering wall, you watch a video, press “continue” every 30 seconds or it times out, answer multiple choice questions at the end, and thats your health and safety done.

I think it’s something that any ‘induction’ that’s really a workshop could use.

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#9

We could use the video screens we have and a raspberry pi and set one up at each station.

#10

Lastly - the points system is a good one I think, let’s revisit that at a members meeting soon.

#11

Yes. It is always good to share the beers. Just not when using power tools etc.

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#12

A points system is an aspect of one of the governance proposals, so will be discussed at a member’s meeting (tho’ whether this one or the next depends on our priorities).

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#13

I think this could be a really promising idea – one further problem with the current inductions is that not only are they infrequent, but they are at set times that suit the inductors, but not necessarily the inductees. It seems that most inductions start at 19:30, and I usually can’t get to the space before 20:00, for example. Video/digital inductions would resolve this issue entirely as I can choose to go into the space whenever I want and complete the induction :thumbsup:

#15

Sorry this is not aimed at you alone Danny but there have been a lot of postings regarding this subject.
I as a @woodtechs and @3dtechs am “fed up” (cannot put in what i want to in a public forum) with moans about the timings of our inductions.

  1. We are not a service.

  2. all inductions have been designed, produced and provided by the techs during their own time.

  3. the wood workshop induction lasts 3.5-4 hours so evening inductions are not possible nor practical unless they start at 18:00

  4. timings are set by inductors to suit themselves and the majority of members so they can reasonably travel to the space after work and leave before the last train has left the station.

so yes the timings are probably set to suit the inductors, but there are other reasons as well.

Dare i say that if getting inducted on a particular tool, machine or activity is that important to you, would it be that difficult to ;

stop whatever you are doing , leave work 1/2 an hour earlier,
come straight to the space from work instead of going home first.
arange for a baby/cat/dog/hamster sitter for the evening/ morning.
take a day off.

if someone is not prepared to do this to fit in with the inductors and most of the members then may i suggest that getting the induction and using the facility is not that high on their priority list.

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#16

I removed my post as we’ve got a better statement from the horses mouth.

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#17

It should go faster when we have video inductions for all the tools , but everything takes a bit longer as nobody is getting payed and has to pay the rent

#18

If everyone asked how to help we would get through it much faster.

What is your skill set ?

#19

We should probably have a better idea of what inductions are for, and therefore how much teaching is required before giving access to a tool(s).

We probably have this about right for wood shop (potential for injury and damage to property high, long basic induction neccecary) and the laser cutter (potential for damage to property high (expensive machine, fire hazard). But other areas not so much - 3d printer is robust and hard to break or injure yourself with, video induction would do. Electronics bench has potentially hazardous tools, should probably have some induction (video probably).

Also we can make the in person inductions process better. As someone who has organised sessions using the current method, it works - but isn’t very efficient. Especially when planning multiple sessions.

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#20

I would be prepared to do a lathe induction at 20.00 as a one off, as long as the other inductees agreed as it would mean a late finish. Elsewise when the turning induction gets recorded it would just be a case of you turning up at 8 and watching the video whist the others turn and then having your go afterwards so not difficult really. I work early hours which is why I don’t run the inductions later as I’m afraid my concentration would be waning. I also work Saturdays so weekend inductions are difficult for me.

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