Electroluminescent Paint - proposed workshops

#1

Sam from Bandgap came to visit a few weeks back with some samples of Lumilor electroluminescent (EL) paint – the samples are stored on right hand side of the high shelf of the 3d Print station if any members want to have a look – but put them back of course!

In brief: it’s a mutilayer paint system that creates a light-emitting capacitor using PN junctons…light is released when highish frequency alternating current is applied across it…

Or…it’s magic paint that lights up when you flick a switch.

This has taken off in the high end car body spraying world — and the odd airbus…
and Brompton bicycle — but Sam is keen to see how it can fit into the Makerspace world: there’s a lot of Tron-like stuff being done with it, but it has many possibilities. This is not a cheap product, but read on to see Sam’s offer to supply more affordable ‘project sized’ quantities than are normally available.

We’ve had a few email exchanges which has resulted in the following offer to Makerspace members.

Okay, I’ve done a lot of thinking on this and have bounced ideas around with my business partner as well.

I came up with the following:

We offer a workshop at a total cost of £40 + VAT (total £48 per person), for a minimum of 10 people - otherwise we’ll have to rethink costs) which includes:

£17.50+VAT for material to light up 100cm2. This includes lacquers, top coats, and consumables.
£22.50+VAT for all our costs and time.

Ideally, we would have enough people interested in it at this extremely cheap price (normally people get charged thousands of pounds to be trained as an applicator by either LumiLor or other applicators).

During these workshops people will light up an acrylic plate, with rounded corners (I’ll need to get these cut on the laser cutter), then block out any design of their choosing using vinyl.
This pretty much guarantees that everyone will get something which lights up at the end of the evening. Possibly the top coating will need to be done in another session.
They would lacquer over the top of the block out paint, and if they want to, can sand that down with an air powered orbital sander (DA) then lacquer again to get a perfectly smooth finish with no
raised/embossed sections, in either gloss, matte or satin finish.

Then, once people have done this workshop and have lit something up for the first time (and got the excitement from that), we could do sessions where people do more complex projects. We could then agree on a rate for this and will also be able to supply all of the other paints needed. We have the facility to powdercoat metal items (and remove old paint or powdercoat), so anyone wanting to do their bike for example will be able to do it properly.

After this initial training session, the cost of LumiLor will be £15.50 + VAT per 100cm2 area. An A4 piece of paper which is a very large area (you could do 10 small logos, 2+ bikes, pin strips etc. with this amount of material), would cost £93 + VAT at this rate.

If all this is a success, we can do workshops for applying LumiLor with an airbrush as well which is a little more difficult but uses a tiny amount of material so will be very cheap for people who get good at it.

Anyone interested in attending a workshop on this unusual and highly adaptable material please indicate in a reply below.

Any questions? Put them below too: Sam will likely join Discourse and be able to answer – and he’s keen to become a member too, when he gets a bot more time.

https://drive.google.com/a/bandgap.co.uk/file/d/1BkmqRyAlBNYOnIsEjvvAlyktMb3fe_Bt/view?usp=drive_web

https://drive.google.com/a/bandgap.co.uk/file/d/1-EFTLkavdwzF1JiezaUie8SAtvBYnup3/view?usp=drive_web

#2

Thanks Dermot. I’m interested.

1 Like
#3

Just looked at the samples - very clever. I’d be on board for a workshop at that price with a more-or-less finished piece at the end of it.

1 Like
#4

Hi,

I’m a new member, but would be very interested in attending this session.

Looks amazing!

Elliot

1 Like
#5

I’m up for it too.

@DAC17?

1 Like
#6

Yep I’d be interested

1 Like
#7

Yes. Definitely. If I’m free to attend on the day planned, I’m in.

1 Like
#8

I’d like to do the workshop too.

1 Like
#9

Hi Everyone and big thanks to @Dermot for the introduction.

If you have any questions about this, post them here and I’ll reply so that everybody else can benefit from the answer. When you’re in the makerspace, if you haven’t already seen it, take a look at the sample shape I left behind.

By the very early impressions (7 people so far) I don’t see why this can’t go ahead and I’m very excited to see what people end up using this for. I’ll wait a few days so we’ll have a better idea of how many people are interested, then speak with Dermot to begin working out the details.
We’ll be using aqua or green LumiLor, so that’s the colour your design will light up. After this workshop, you will have a choice of green, blue, aqua, white, orange and a few others possibly on request.

Homework :wink: :

On your little acrylic plates, you will be lighting up a rectangle, then using cut vinyl as masking, blocking out light you don’t want to show. After removing the vinyl, only a design (text, shapes, logos, maybe something festive? Or whatever you choose) will light up. You can also have your design in reverse, so a rectangle lights up minus your design, it’s completely up to you. You need to choose whether you want it landscape or portrait as well. Minimum width/size to be able to mask effectively is about 1mm so your design can be however intricate or simple as you like. The vinyl design will have application tape on top, so that will hold the design together for easy positioning.

So… Please can everyone have a think about what you’d like to do on your piece. To guarantee everything goes to plan, I’ll pre-cut your designs on our vinyl plotter, using vinyl we know works well, before the workshop. The lit rectangle will be 125x80mm. People can submit a sketch or Adobe llustrator file and I can possibly visit the makerspace on an earlier arranged date to help anyone with the design.

Finally, you will need to choose what colour you want the plate to be (everything that doesn’t light up) and hopefully you can all agree on a minimum number of colours (maybe someone can set up a poll). We’ll use black as a default, but let me know if you want a different colour.

All the best,

Sam
Bandgap Ltd

1 Like
#10

Nice. Noted =]

1 Like
#11

PN-junctions you say…sign me up, sounds illuminating.

2 Likes
#12

To anyone interested, I can explain the physics details, but believing it is magic is also fine by me!

#13

Can you resin over the top of the paint?

I’m interested in making a design, dropping it into a recess on a tabletop so it’s about 5mm below the lip of the recess and then filling in with clear glass epoxy. Would this affect the paint at all?

#14

Hi Dale

We encapsulate the LumiLor with standard automotive clearcoat which has good solvent resistance, so covering in resin will not be a problem. You will need to consider how/where to make the electrical connections, but we can discuss this. A large lit area will also be expensive. Do you intend for the whole area to light up, what would the dimensions be? You need a busbar around (but not necessarily fully surrounding) the lit area to supply current into the conductive top coat (CTC). Lastly, the LumiLor may appear a bit patchy as it is hand applied, that only really becomes noticeable if you have large areas not visibly broken up by a design. Pretty much any design you can think of can be blocked out easily and even multiple tone by not fully blocking out (covering in a slightly translucent top coat).

#15

Awesome. Thanks for getting back to us.
Wouldn’t be too large. Maybe 30cm x 40cm and would be a design of some sort with at least half blocked out. Having a surround would
Be okay too as that could be sunken into the wall
of the recess and out of view.
I don’t have any specific design in mind, rather thinking ahead to some general projects I have in mind.

One question…does the paint all have to be touching in order to light up? Can you do designs with individual shapes dotted around or do they all have to be contacting for the current to pass through?

#16

Hi Dale

As per the pricing outlined in my email which Dermot shared, if you were to illuminate the full 30x40cm, that is equivalent to 2x A4 or £186. I don’t know whether that’s a lot of money or not for this potential project (sounds like quite a lot!). Running the “panel” at a high enough brightness will minimise visible patchiness, as would a design over the top.

Thinking really outside the box, you could even have a hydro-dipped design, ultra-thin wood veneer or even marble over the top which light will shine through and would give an interesting look both on and off. Not saying you should do this, just pointing out some other ways it can be used.

#17

Sounds like an interesting application, but not necessarily making the most of the fact that you can coat 3D shapes with this stuff. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to just use EL paper?

#18

Probably.

I could also probably use LEDs and shapes cut out of acrylic.

Just snowballing ideas at present. Will probably be a while before I get to put my ideas into practice anyway!

#19

If you’re referring to EL panels, then yes definitely that’s a cheaper method for flat stuff, I thought of mentioning that. Whilst wouldn’t look great if put on top of a table, if it’s being embedded, then it may not matter. For flat or simple faces on a 3D object, it can still be nice to use EL paint, as it’s possible to finish it off nicely (a paint, not something being stuck-on). One example would be lighting up around the edge of a table, not impossible with EL tape, but you can’t easily get a professional finish if you’re sticking tape on, that also has very limiting connection methods. I’ve used both EL panels and tape before so I’m quite aware of the limitations of them, such as - don’t try to use them where they could get wet and if you try to peel off EL tape that has been stuck down, this generally forms tiny cracks and then the tapes fail within hours (black/dark patches).

#20

Can I ask how much the electronics to make these work cost and will these be supplied as well?