Ok ok, well I was just throwing my thoughts in the pile… 
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I think the Starting Point is the Cost of a van because that’s the only way you can get a realistic insurance quote.
Zip/similar/rental is likely to work out cheaper over a year, they’re really good value. Barnaby gives the details above. Also zipcar includes Congestion Charge and the 60 miles includes petrol.
A van is not cheap to buy and costs a lot to run - especially an older one, which is presumably what could be purchased? An older van means regular trips to the garage though some at MS could do basic things - how many can?
The usual things with any vehicle are:
MOT - the older the model, the more it costs cus you’ve got to fix any issues to pass the MOT. And how many MOT’s could the van realistically take - same as buying a car, how long will it last.
Tax.
Insurance - waivers are really high so this has to be part of the budget.
Regular maintenance by members - oil/water/antifreeze/tyres.
Engine damage - nothing worse than burning the clutch / wearing the breaks out which happens with group usage.
Bodywork damage if bad - well there is the garage next door, so that’s probably ok.
Time to fix these things means other members can’t use the van.
Parking Tickets.
Speeding Tickets.
Breakdown cover.
Who keeps a log of van usage?
Who gets to choose what’s stored in the van?
How many at MS have driving licences and driving a van in London experience? It’s a nightmare.
Also, I would worry that leaving a van with anything in it parked outside MS most nights is an invitation for break-in?
Is the cost fair on members who won’t use the van in any way?
Sorry guys, I guess you can tell that I feel rental is a much better arrangement.
Yep, even a 2nd hand banger will cost thousands, more or less.
oops
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152282557630
I think she is referring to the running costs. Anyone can buy a car, I could buy a car for less than a new bike, but the cost of keeping it on the road is the issue.
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I await the spreadsheet with interest, but I find it very hard to believe that we need a van enough to actually buy one.
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Cheap banger 
!
It looks like 3 interested, not 4?
145,000 miles
We should make a list of reasons why it would be good to have a van. Then chose the option that fits this. Wiki wiki wiki
Why?
- we could paint it black with a red stripe on it
- picking up material
- moving big projects home etc
- …
why not?
- …
How often:
- picking up materials during construction - monthly
- …
The underlining reason this won’t happen and this is yet again more bike shedding is money, we don’t have enough of it with current plans to expand at some point in the future.
That’s probably true if we buy. But not so much if we hire.
In any case, my point is we should discuss why we want one before deciding on the method.
If that’s clearly defined we can better see what solution is available.
Discussion can continue without finance. That’s all I’m suggesting. An accurate idea of what size, how often, and any other points that are raised are worth talking about.
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I wouldn’t have thought owning a van would be a good use of funds when :
- many members own vehicles already - just go on dicourse an ask ‘can anyone help me move this ?’
- it would spend much of it’s time just taking up another parking space
3)how often do things need transporting that can’t be done with a members vehicle
4)how often has van transport been needed in the past and how has this been overcome ? - a makerspace helicopter would be more useful
- materials can usually be delivered
7)a second 3D printer would be nice
8)another arch would be nice
9)plenty of more useful things can be thought of that we could do with
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Also Watch the old bangers… one of the reason they are cheap is because if they are over a certain weight and over a certain age they are banned from London unless you fit them with a >£2,500 cat 5 exhaust and emissions system…
Courty
yes to the above from me .
but i am a member of zipvan /zipcar and need a van at short notice all over london. practically it doesnt work for me.
if anyone needs to collect materials I am happy to help out, just give me a bit of notice
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Yep, all insurance is now based on ‘Emissions’ firstly and older vehicles don’t have this ability without substantial cost. Didn’t know about the weight.
I have no need of a van, however, from the other thread
You might need some sort of a contract in place. If leaving the MVC is as easy as leaving the Makerspace (i.e. cancelling your direct debit), then if a few members leave, some more might think the increased cost makes it not worth continuing their membership either and also leave, which makes it even less attractive to remaining members, and you get a snowballing effect of members leaving. Who is then left holding the baby?
Especially if the van is ever off the road due to a mechanical issue for a significant period or, worse, written off. In which case, people will still be paying membership fees in exchange for no service.
This last point is something important to consider. With a Zipvan, a lot of the risk is born by a larger organization, which has a whole fleet of vans. In the MVC, the members will presumably still be liable for some costs if its only van is no longer usable.
As others have mentioned, there is no guaranteed parking. And even if the van is in a parking space on the estate, there is no guarantee of your getting it out of the estate when you want to, especially during the day time. Have you seen how bad parking can get during the day in the week and on Saturday? If you take it out on a weekday, when you get back you may find you can’t park it anywhere. Not in the estate, because it is full, and not on the street outside because the parking is all controlled and it is during chargeable hours.
Those of us who bring our own vehicles to the estate are constantly having to move them to let other people in and out. It is important therefore that we are always around so as not to inconvenience other people by blocking them in or out. Who will be responsible for moving the van if there are no MVC members around? The mechanics may leave vehicles for a long time, but they are able to wait for one of the spaces at the edges to become available before they leave a vehicle in it unattended.
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Just to take this right back to basics, what’s the use case for having a van? Demand level, this cost vs others? Appears to be a pretty weak argument for one so far. Just cause we have some cash. Easy people easy.
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Very very much against spending SLMS cash on this (I don’t think it supports our core values - our mission statement, if you like) but again if a group of members want to get together and fund it that’s fine.
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You’ll find I’m in total agreement with you.